Film forming WB concrete sealer after densifier

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Tex Rowe 5 months ago.

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  • #453 Reply

    David

    Hi,

    We are building a new home and are having exposed concrete floors throughout. The builder used a harder than usual concrete mix and more reo to try and minimize cracking, and used the helicopter trowel extensively after laying to get as smooth and consistent finish as possible. There have ended up being a few rough patches around though and despite their best efforts at protecting the slab there has been some plaster/mortar etc dropped on it. To clean it up we plan on grinding the surface ourselves, not so much to expose the aggregate but just a little to remove some of the plaster etc as well as smoothing off the whole surface for a more even look. We do not want a wet look gloss finish, but rather a matt or semi gloss look that is easy to clean.       
    My question is, if we use the Concrete Densifier mid way through the grinding process (after 80 grit), can we then apply the Film Forming Concrete Sealer WB at the end of polishing to give us the semi gloss, easy clean finish we are after?

    Thanks for your help in advance,
    Dave

    #639 Reply

    Tex Rowe

    Hi Dave,
    yes that is typically the process or system for those not wishing to polish all the way up to say 3000 grit resin pads.
    As a rough guide the process should look like:
    Grind – Densify – Polish – Seal.
    Of course there are many variations like:
    40 Grind – Densify – 80 Grind – Seal etc.
    We should add two points though. Generally it is not advisable to polish above 800 grit if applying a sealer as adhesion could become an issue.
    The second is while Film Forming Concrete Sealer WB is acceptable to use, it will require maintenance coats every few years or so. Most in your scenario choose to pass the acrylics and utilise a more durable coating system like 100% Solids Epoxy Flooring Kit which can be found here: https://cswcoatings.com.au/100-solids-epoxy-flooring-kit/

    #640 Reply

    David

    Thanks for your advice Tex,

    We definitely like the idea of less maintenance for the floor and I see the Premium Penetrating Concrete Sealer has an expected wear time of up to 15 years. Is this sealer also compatible with the Concrete Densifier?

    After a bit more investigating we are looking at the option of achieving the smooth finish required to make for easy cleaning by grinding to a higher grit level, maybe 800, 1500 or 3000, and using the Premium Penetrating Sealer to provide protection for many, many years (We have decided we would rather a high gloss level if necessary to achieve easy cleaning as well as a very long lasting seal). You mention you would not go over 800 grit if applying a sealer due to adhesion issues. Does this also apply to the Penetrating Sealers?   

    One last query, during the grinding process we may need to use a liquid grouter of some kind to fill in pinholes and other imperfections. Are there any that you would recommend to use with your densifier and penetrating sealer? Would most be compatible with your products?

    Thanks again,
    Dave 

    #641 Reply

    Tex Rowe

    We definitely like the idea of less maintenance for the floor and I see the Premium Penetrating Concrete Sealer has an expected wear time of up to 15 years. Is this sealer also compatible with the Concrete Densifier?
    No, the penetrating Premium and Densifier are not compatible. If utilising a Densifier and polishing all the way to 3000, then a penetrating sealer is not necessary anyway.

    After a bit more investigating we are looking at the option of achieving the smooth finish required to make for easy cleaning by grinding to a higher grit level, maybe 800, 1500 or 3000, and using the Premium Penetrating Sealer to provide protection for many, many years (We have decided we would rather a high gloss level if necessary to achieve easy cleaning as well as a very long lasting seal). You mention you would not go over 800 grit if applying a sealer due to adhesion issues. Does this also apply to the Penetrating Sealers?   
    No, 800 grit is a guide for coatings and not penetrating sealers. If your slab can absorb water after say a 2 minute period, it can absorb our sealer.

    One last query, during the grinding process we may need to use a liquid grouter of some kind to fill in pinholes and other imperfections. Are there any that you would recommend to use with your densifier and penetrating sealer? Would most be compatible with your products?
    Usually we suggest our Crack Filler as it is still required to be porous to accept a penetrating or topical product thus reducing compatibility issues.

    #642 Reply

    David

    Excellent, thanks Tex!

    #1673 Reply

    Deva

    Hi
    Thanks for all the clear information to help understand about all this. We have a new concrete slab (2 months old) which was helicopter troweled extensively to get as smooth and consistent finish as possible.
    We now need to seal it.
    Does the Concrete Densifier add any beneficial characteristics if applied before the Delux Penetrating Concrete Sealer WB?

    #1680 Reply

    Tex Rowe
    Keymaster

    Hi Deva,

    Does the Concrete Densifier add any beneficial characteristics if applied before the Delux Penetrating Concrete Sealer WB?

    A concrete densifier is a hardener/dustproofer with very limited repellent characteristics. In contrast, a penetrating sealer is a stain repellent with limited hardening/dustproofing qualities. Typically an applicator will apply a densifier first to ensure integrity of slab, if necessary polish, then if porosity allows (see Preparation Guide: https://cswcoatings.com.au/preparation/) apply stain repellent penetrating sealer.

    Tex Rowe
    CSW Coatings Australia
    CSW Coatings USA

    #1700 Reply

    Deva

    Thank you for your reply.
    It sounds like as long as porosity allows, it would be recommended to use both products to cover both bases (ie dusting plus sealing/repelling)?

    Is there an example of what the slab surface would look like after the densifier is applied? Our slab is in good condition – I just mentioned dusting because I have heard of it as one of the issues with concrete, but I have no previous experience with concrete floors. (It will not be high traffic.)

    Would one apply 2 coats of Delux Penetrating Concrete Sealer WB after applying the densifier?

    Is it correct that if you used Epoxy WB after applying the densifier, you can add in a tint?

    But is it also correct you would also get a low sheen (ie darkened a bit), not as natural, but also not too glossy wet look?
    Which leads me to ask, would it be sufficient to not use a densifier at all, if you used the Epoxy WB?

    Apologise for so many questions, hopefully getting the picture soon.
    Thank you.

    #1704 Reply

    Tex Rowe
    Keymaster

    It sounds like as long as porosity allows, it would be recommended to use both products to cover both bases (ie dusting plus sealing/repelling)?

    if porosity allows then both product may be used

    Is there an example of what the slab surface would look like after the densifier is applied?

    The densifier itself is quite natural with polishing having more of an effect on the finish. An image can be found under the Features Tab here:
    https://cswcoatings.com.au/product/concrete-densifier/

    Would one apply 2 coats of Delux Penetrating Concrete Sealer WB after applying the densifier?

    Penetrating sealers are 2 coat systems

    Is it correct that if you used Epoxy WB after applying the densifier, you can add in a tint?

    yes Water Based Epoxy is available in 6 colours. Please see:
    https://cswcoatings.com.au/product/water-based-epoxy/

    But is it also correct you would also get a low sheen (ie darkened a bit), not as natural, but also not too glossy wet look?

    Water Based Epoxy is technically supplied as low sheen though for more on what may affect Finishes please see:
    https://cswcoatings.com.au/finish/

    Which leads me to ask, would it be sufficient to not use a densifier at all, if you used the Epoxy WB?

    The 2 products serve different purposes as one is penetrating and one is film forming. eg: applicators concerned with damaging hydrostatic pressures will apply a Densifier first followed by Water Based Epoxy ensuring substrate is protected from within as well as above.

    Tex Rowe
    CSW Coatings Australia
    CSW Coatings USA

    #1720 Reply

    Deva

    Hi again Tex
    Could you tell me if the finished look is the same if you were to use Concrete Densifier or if you were to use Penetrating Sealer?

    And also could you tell me if the durability are the same also – that is concerning resistence to abrasion; and concerning how long the treatment lasts before it might need to be redone, other things being equal?

    Concerning the temperature when applying. I see that for the penetrating sealer it says not to apply below 10 degrees.
    For the densifier, this is not mentioned as a limitation. I am asking because here in Victoria it has become quite quickly cold – 15 as the high and 6 or so as the overnight low. Would this be ok for applying the densifier in our shed workshop if there was no rain about and it was a bit sunny?

    If so, how long would you say to wait before applying the second coat, or would it perhaps be sufficient to use one coat only, safer since since the temperatures are cool, plus the slab is in good condition.

    Thank you very much
    Deva

    #1727 Reply

    Tex Rowe
    Keymaster

    Could you tell me if the finished look is the same if you were to use Concrete Densifier or if you were to use Penetrating Sealer?

    Both are sub-surface and when applied according to directions do not present a finish.

    And also could you tell me if the durability are the same also – that is concerning resistence to abrasion; and concerning how long the treatment lasts before it might need to be redone, other things being equal?

    Abrasion resistance is typically reserved for coatings, in saying this a densifier is a hardener so will create a more durable surface and is permanent. A penetrating sealer is more of a stain repellent with each products expected wear differing. Please see:
    https://cswcoatings.com.au/expected-wear/

    Concerning the temperature when applying. I see that for the penetrating sealer it says not to apply below 10 degrees.
    For the densifier, this is not mentioned as a limitation.

    As a general rule most coatings/sealers have a temperature application sweet spot. Please see: https://cswcoatings.com.au/preparation/ under General.

    Would this be ok for applying the densifier in our shed workshop if there was no rain about and it was a bit sunny?
    If so, how long would you say to wait before applying the second coat, or would it perhaps be sufficient to use one coat only, safer since since the temperatures are cool, plus the slab is in good condition.

    Applicators determine best course of application by following Directions:
    https://cswcoatings.com.au/product/concrete-densifier/
    though a test patch can eliminate many concerns with variables from project to project.

    Tex Rowe
    CSW Coatings Australia
    CSW Coatings USA

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